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Abortion

Discussion in 'Debates' started by Deinen, Apr 10, 2017.

  1. Killer2themx

    Killer2themx Popular Meeper

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    Well I apologize. I've never seen it go well. Glad to hear it worked out for your family.
     
  2. Supreme_Overlord

    Supreme_Overlord Popular Meeper

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    You seem way too excited about letting people kill themselves. We shouldn't allow people to just throw their whole lives away through suicide.
    I don't think that that analogy really works in your favor; a house is still a house even if it's currently inaccessible. There's a big difference between not having a house at all and hypothetically having a house that you are currently unable to get into.
     
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  3. Ranger0203

    Ranger0203 Popular Meeper

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    A minor wouldn't be considered capable of making that decision.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 3, 2017, Original Post Date: May 3, 2017 ---
    This is true, but possessing something that doesn't work is pretty much pointless.
    Yes, but a fetus has all the genetic coding necessary to develop those parts, will develop them if left naturally, and will (in all likelyhood) become a functioning person within 9 months of conception. If you were to fall into a coma for 9 months, and people knew you would wake up in nine months, could we unplug you? Legally no. Morally no. Even if it was costing people (taxpayers, your family, etc.) money, time, and heartache it would still be illegal and more importantly immoral to allow you to die.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 3, 2017 ---
    Happy to hear it, but my friends' parents split (read: never married) after they had them (twins) at 16 (mother) and 17 (father). It doesn't always turn out well; you have to be suited to each other. Still not an excuse to kill someone though.
     
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  4. Blue_Marlin

    Blue_Marlin Popular Meeper

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    What?

    I literally said "I want to prevent people from committing suicide" so please get the facts straight. Also, idc if you kill yourself. Just don't murder innocent people/babies.

    I don't think age defines your ability to be a parent but maturity and mentality does.
     
  5. Supreme_Overlord

    Supreme_Overlord Popular Meeper

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    I forgot to respond to this, but that's not the main reason that religious people often refrain from having premarital sex. Premarital sex is often viewed as a sin in and of itself, which is why they usually don't partake in it, not because it can lead to pregnancy.
     
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  6. metr0n0me

    metr0n0me Celebrity Meeper

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    Meh, a lot of times mental illness and/or depression can lead to someone becoming suicidal. Oftentimes counseling, therapy, etc. can help mitigate these issues and stop suicidal thoughts/intentions.

    I've volunteered in a women's domestic violence shelter and encountered a lot of people who were formerly suicidal; not one person ever wished they'd go through with suicide.

    So yes, I do care if you want to kill your self. You should too--people suffering from mental illness deserve treatment and empathy.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 3, 2017, Original Post Date: May 3, 2017 ---
    Correction: they claim to not partake in it outwardly, but quietly do.

    Source: am religious, go to a Catholic school, have been on more than my fair share of long youth trips.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 3, 2017 ---
    Can you explain how these two statements go together?

     
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  7. Supreme_Overlord

    Supreme_Overlord Popular Meeper

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    Yes, but it's not pointless if it can work again.
    I agree that it would be immoral, but because the person in the coma (I'll say "the person," rather than "myself," so that I don't come across as biased) is a sentient being. Sure, they aren't currently able to use their sentience, but they're still a being with the full capacity for sentience, unlike an early-stage fetus.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 3, 2017, Original Post Date: May 3, 2017 ---
    Yes, but you also said, "Absolutely! Yes! If you want to talk YOUR life away, by all means do it! I could honestly careless." You ended multiple statements with exclamation marks when talking about how you're fine with suicide. I don't see how that can come across as the words of someone who truly wants to stop someone from suicide. I know that you said that you want to prevent suicide, but what you said above is encouraging suicide and it made up more of your message than the part about preventing it, not to mention that I don't know how they can go together.

    Are you specifically talking about me? Are you saying that you're against suicide in general but that you're fine with it if I kill myself?
    I agree, but what is this a response to? I didn't say anything age and parenting.
     
  8. Blue_Marlin

    Blue_Marlin Popular Meeper

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    @metr0n0me I have said that I want them to get the help they need but I would rather you kill yourself then any other person.
    @Supreme_Overlord I use "!" After a lot of my statements, it's not that in excited because I'm not. I would just rather you kill yourself then someone else. @metr0n0me My grandfather killed himself. I didn't have the honor of meeting him as he did just a few years before I was born. However, I see how negatively it effected my father, still to this day it does and it happened 20 years ago. His was lead on from the war. Anyway, that doesn't matter. My feeling on suicide may seem like a "heartless" move but I can't get upset about someone killing themselves just like I can't get mad at someone for overdose. @Supreme_Overlord someone had said "I would never make a 16 year old go through pregnancy" then @Deinen had said, "His wife and kids and how old they were" in response to that I was saying "Age doesn't define your ability to parent, maturity and mentality does".
     
  9. MeepLord27

    MeepLord27 Well-Known Meeper

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    If an adult wants to kill themselves, let em. Its there choice. Its a sad thing, but its not anyone else job to interfere.
     
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  10. Blue_Marlin

    Blue_Marlin Popular Meeper

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    I think if someone else can prevent them from doing it then they should try but if someone does kill themselves I just can't be mad at it. It was their choice.
     
  11. Ranger0203

    Ranger0203 Popular Meeper

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    And now you see what I'm talking about with the fetus; both will be operational in the future. which is what matters.
    They aren't though... That's why they're in a coma. They're literally just a collection of cells doing preprogrammed tasks with no consciousness.
     
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  12. Supreme_Overlord

    Supreme_Overlord Popular Meeper

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    I didn't say that a fetus that hasn't developed the capacity for sentience is pointless, just that it doesn't have moral rights. By saying that something isn't pointless I don't mean that it inherently has moral rights.
    To use a similar analogy to the one that Blue_marlin tried to use, imagine that we have an inaccessible house and a lot where a house is going to be built. Let's assume that the walls of the house are sentience and that living in the house is the equivalent of having a functioning, sentient brain. There's a difference between a house that nobody can get into and a house without the walls built in the first place.

    Regardless, I think that you might be right and this difference might be pretty arbitrary; since both organisms don't currently have sentience, perhaps it doesn't matter that one has the capacity for it, but this doesn't automatically prove that abortion is wrong. If anything, I think this would lead the conclusion to be that we don't have inherent obligations towards people who are in comas/vegetative states, which might actually be true, but this doesn't mean that we aren't morally obligated to try to save them for other reasons.
     
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  13. Ranger0203

    Ranger0203 Popular Meeper

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    Why not?
    So you're saying that someone who is unconscious, even temporarily, is not human?
     
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  14. Supreme_Overlord

    Supreme_Overlord Popular Meeper

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    I didn't say anything about them not being human; they're still human. Conceived fetuses are humans too. I've been discussing whether or not humans in certain states are people that have rights, not whether or not they are biologically human.

    Anyway, I'm actually going to take back part of what I said. After thinking more about it, I do think that we have a moral obligation to focus on the well-being of potential sentient beings, not only ones that are currently sentient; however, I do not think this makes abortion inherently wrong.

    In certain hypothetical scenarios, I'd agree that abortion would always be wrong. For example, if there were only a few members of the human race left and they had the potential to bring the race back, I think that it would be wrong to stop it from happening. In our modern-day world, however, it would not make things better to insist that people focus on potential lives that haven't come into existence yet. Trying to bring unconscious people, people in comas, and people in vegetative states back to sentient conditions is something that society would be greatly harmed without; however, giving everyone an obligation to bring new sentient life into the world is something that society would be harmed with, as it would lead to an overpopulated and miserable world.
     
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  15. Ranger0203

    Ranger0203 Popular Meeper

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    Why? What's the difference?
    Not having wars all the time leads to overpopulation... should we have more wars?
    Not everybody needs or is 'obligated' to have kids, but if you do conceive some, should you be able to kill them?
     
  16. MeepLord27

    MeepLord27 Well-Known Meeper

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  17. Muunkee

    Muunkee Legendary art supply hoarder

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    I have absolutely no idea what this sentence means.
     
  18. MeepLord27

    MeepLord27 Well-Known Meeper

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    English isn't my first language, sorry. I was trying to say that you guys are all about women's choices, so why don't you guys care about the women who aren't being given a chance to be born because there getting aborted.
     
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  19. Muunkee

    Muunkee Legendary art supply hoarder

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    The girls being aborted over boys due to preference is something that happens. It happensmuch more in those areas but it happens to boys too, when the parents want a girl.

    Again....Im thinking about the woman more than Im thinking about the thing inside her that cannot physically know that it exists yet.
    Once it knows it exists (like 22 weeks, docs say babies cant feel pain for like 24, but offer some leeway since sometimes kids grow quick) then abortion should not happen, I would 100% agree that abortion should be mmade illegal after that time frame, once the baby hits that maturity mark, then you are stuck.
    But before that, the woman should have a choice.
    Something that is not able to make or think about choices or decisions and never has been yet (No I'm not saying infants can make choices but its about living and becoming a real thing and a real being here) imo you have to assign a priority. Who do you care about, the thing that hasnt lived yet, or the thing that lives right now?
     
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  20. PixelPizza

    PixelPizza Popular Meeper

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    Those are two completly different things. Are you even a frickin human being? You seem like a robot. I need clarification.

    The below statement is false.

    The above statement is true.
     
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