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Alternatives to Shout tax

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Lady_Hestia, Apr 10, 2017.

  1. Lady_Hestia

    Lady_Hestia Retro, Dance, Freak

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    After discussing in global about shout tax I am suggesting we remove it.


    Pros:

    Takes money out of economy

    Maybe decreases spam???

    Cons:

    When players want to be part of the welcome committee and help new players often times they get money deducted from them

    If you are explaining or telling a story in global you are going to lose a lot of money

    Many people speak in segmented statements to keep from getting washed away in global (by the time you’ve finished your point we’ve moved on)

    If players want to spam the tax won’t stop them, it has zero effect on the amount of spam

    This tax affects people who are helping far more than it does to reduce spam

    Staff will still kick/warn them so it doesn’t actually make it easier on them

    We already have a check for the same message as someone above, which means it’s more likely to be a person with real content being taxed than someone who wishes to detract from global.


    I lost a lot of money myself just from discussing this with everyone. In my opinion the tax does not discourage spam but punishes those who are active and friendly in global. If I had the statistics I truly think they would back up my argument. We have really good staff who are on all day, the modreq count is low enough that /kick is easy enough and if it saves people who are genuinely good players from losing money then it is work the staff should be doing. If the tax was benefiting the server and actually decreasing spam I wouldn’t mind paying the extra meebles now and then but the tax doesn’t decrease spam.


    Solutions

    1. Remove it in all worlds but in spawn: New players are more likely to spam than veteran players. This is still not ideal because new players have so little money anyway that it doesn’t discourage them from continuing to spam

    2. “Tax returns”: This is a really cool idea in concept but it is resource heavy and overly complicated. But if the money lost to taxes was kept track of then we could get it back at certain intervals provided we haven’t been banned.

    3. Adding to the lotto: This is an interesting idea because while the money goes back to the community the cons out weigh the pros. This would mean that the eco benefit of taxing is null and it almost becomes an incentive to spam.

    4. Removing it from donors: The tax should be considered a precaution not a punishment. If someone donates to the server it is more likely than not that they want to see the server thrive and no longer need to have the filter of taxation. I do not see it as a “perk” but a bonus effect would be more donations. Of course there will be outliers but I think that if someone pays money to the server they shouldn’t be the ones who will be spamming

    5. Completely removing the tax: The server count is low enough that it makes no difference to have this tax. Take it away for a week and watch how many people spam. This will remove a money draining feature of the economy though.



    In conclusion I think that removing the tax will allow for more enriching global discussions and less frustration by players who weren’t doing anything wrong. I’m interested to see in the comments the counter arguments.
     
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  2. Blue_marlin98

    Blue_marlin98 Popular Meeper

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    100% back into lotto <3
     
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  3. Kling

    Kling Break Blocks Not Hearts Staff Member Super Mod

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    Players can message the person and say welcome. I done that for a while when I joined because a few players said to stop shouting ''welcome'' because it spammed. For the stories costing a lot of meebles the chat has increased in size so you can fit more character yes you still lose money though. As well as people talking in segmented statements it is no problem if you have some meebles, with that one you kind of just mentioned for people to type quicker or to fit it all in one since it is just (by the time you’ve finished your point we’ve moved on) for myself I have rarely if not never seen that happen.

    Players use the argument that I am a staff member and it costs nothing. I was a player like you all and paid for shout tax as well and did not have a problem with it then. -1
     
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  4. Lady_Hestia

    Lady_Hestia Retro, Dance, Freak

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    I recognize your point but my followup question is, does the tax do it's job effectively in discouraging spam? My belief is the answer is no. I think that the ratio of people who aren't spamming who get taxed has to be obscenely high. Perhaps we could find another solution to spammers? /jail was implemented
    If I was intent on spamming a tax of 100 wouldn't deter me
     
  5. Blue_marlin98

    Blue_marlin98 Popular Meeper

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    Honestly, the 100 meeble tax should either be put into something else (like lotto or small towns) or just be left alone. If the 100 meebles doesn't deter you then a 0 meeble tax certainly won't. /jail is torture, I think instead of /ban they should all use /jail because its more torture. Allowing them to listen to everyone, see the conversation and see whats going on outside the jail but not being able to say anything or do anything (just walk around that tiny place) is more miserable then just seeing a timer of when you get to come back. I also think the timer should be taken away while in /jail so its a mystery on when you get to come back. ANYWAY got off topic for a bit. Sorry about that but yeah just leave the 100 meeble tax (unless you put it into another cause) :p good suggestions on what to do with it though!
     
  6. Lady_Hestia

    Lady_Hestia Retro, Dance, Freak

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    difference between 100 meebles tax and 0 is that I don't get unfairly taxed. Jail is a decent punishment that really would make people stop
     
  7. Kling

    Kling Break Blocks Not Hearts Staff Member Super Mod

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    It is like once every few days, if not a week I have to kick someone for spam so I guess it is.
     
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  8. PseudoGod

    PseudoGod Popular Meeper

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    That's because people just don't spam in general, not because of the tax in place

    Honestly the 100 meeble tax in itself is too punishing for a server where the average income is like 3k per hour actively playing

    Just remove the tax or reduce it by 90% to adjust to the new economy
     
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  9. Natsu

    Natsu Popular Meeper

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    Instead of removing the tax, we could make a new plugin when you type /welcome and it says Welcome to Meepcraft for you without tax.
     
  10. OKNEM

    OKNEM Popular Meeper

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    Completely agree with this.

    +1.
     
  11. Qazini

    Qazini Well-Known Meeper

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    While I do get the idea, I think it would be kind of weird. I really enjoy typing it out every time, even if I sometimes make spelling errors from trying to beat everyone else :p. This would also prevent variance "Welcome" "Welcome to Meep" and "Welcome username".
     
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  12. Natsu

    Natsu Popular Meeper

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    Well, you certainly are welcome to type it out (but watch the taxes), and it's easy to code it so that it randomly picks a message from like 10 different options
     
  13. Marshy_88

    Marshy_88 Popular Meeper

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    We should bring in mutes instead of fines
     
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  14. kwagscraft

    kwagscraft Popular Meeper

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    its because i only log on once every few days
     
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  15. Legocreator2013

    Legocreator2013 Popular Meeper

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    I personally believe it is a staff job to control spam. Just have a message that tells people to slow down and cancel the message. I can see this issue having an adverse effect on new, poor players. If we really must have a system for this it must change from its current state. Rich players can spam many times with no effect.
     
  16. smkorpi

    smkorpi Popular Meeper

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    +1 As a member of the community who enjoys talking in chat I have spent more money on shout tax than I have spent money on player to player sales easily. I haven't been kicked for spam in over a year, but have easily lost 20k by now in shout tax (I lose roughly 2k per day to taxes assuming it is the weekend or spring break).
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 16, 2017 ---
    The fact that staff are exempt from taxes seems pretty unfair, if someone goes to the effort to become a staff member they should have enough mee les and subject themselves to the same pain the whole time as the rest of the community.

    Plus, there is positive results of "Welcome" being seen in chat for anyone wanting to be seen as helpful, and I don't see why it would need to go to /msg since about any message in chat is better than what meep usually has at off points of the day.
     
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  17. _Piro_

    _Piro_ Popular Meeper

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    Shout tax is the number one most pointless plug in on this server. It does not reduce spam at all. And when you have less than 100 on you, you pretty much can barely even shout. If you don't want spam, just make it so that the person's message doesn't send if they are spamming. I would rather save 100 meebles and have my message not be said. With the new economy, 100 meebles is actually a lot, to be taxed out on most of my messages. And at a time were meep averages around 25 players on at once, activity in chat is a necessity.

    Now if you don't want to remove it, here is what I suggest:
    - Lower it to 50 meebles (or even lower)
    - Make it so that your message doesn't go through and you don't lose money if you spam
    - Make it activate less commonly (Such as if you say 5 messages in 10 seconds or something along those lines)

    Shout tax has been hated by the community since it was created, and staff still will not remove it. I also want to talk more about how it "decreases spam" because we all know it doesn't. People still spam regardless of a tax. Think about it: the only people who are going to spam crazily are those who do not really care much for the server. If they don't care for the server, they won't care for their money. So, they keep losing money until they go down to 0, where they can barely shout. But at that point, why not just remove the money tax and stop their message.

    I have heavily disliked shout tax always. I've lost at least hundreds of thousands to it over the years, and last time I checked, I wouldn't consider myself a spammer.
     
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  18. DancingCactus

    DancingCactus Celebrity Meeper

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    just to give my very important opinion about in game matters that is greatly respected around here due to my INSANE activity

    shout tax actually makes me not want to play/communicate at all
     
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  19. Blue_marlin98

    Blue_marlin98 Popular Meeper

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    I had exactly 100k and now I have 99,900 and it's pretty depressing! Thanks shout tax! I'm starting to think we should void it instead! +1 for getting rid of it!
     
  20. _Piro_

    _Piro_ Popular Meeper

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    I'd just like to ask a staff member to give me a legitimate reason on why there is shout tax, besides "it reduces spam." Even if you somehow think it reduces spam, that is staff's job. A staff member is to assist players and moderate chat/make sure everyone follows the rules. I know staff work very hard, and I appreciate all they do, I just feel like that's something a staff member should do. By in a way automating reducing spam, you have made the community unhappy. I just want to know why shout tax is a thing. It is more of a nuisance and a negativity than a good thing.
     

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