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Atheists, convince me.

Discussion in 'Debates' started by nhjed, May 2, 2018.

  1. nhjed

    nhjed Celebrity Meeper

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    I changed the thread title to make it more dramatic, also wanted to change the direction of this thread to improve its formality.

    @god I know you look down upon clickbait but I’m a devoted Christian don’t send me to hell I swear to g-

    ur saying to urself nhjed why are you still here? yea idk but this just ran across my mind

    my argument:

    is it better to have faith with no cost and chance at a afterlife, or no faith and no afterlife?

    counterarguments I brought up:

    the Bible is contradictory towards itself. (not going to quote direct verses unless one of you bring up a good point, going based off my subpar but sufficient knowledge on this topic) but the Bible states to love your neighbor as thyself or whatever tf right? so why does the bible promote the following

    slavery
    condemnation of homosexuals
    condemnation of transsexuals
    a few more I’m too lazy to look up

    this goes back to

    love thy neighbor as oneself or whatever tf

    also, the Bible states

    no eating pork
    no eating random animals (i.e rodents dammit I have to cut rat out of my diet :()
    no getting tattoos
    a few more I’m too lazy to look up

    Inform me, correct me

    go
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
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  2. MeepLord27

    MeepLord27 Popular Meeper

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    religion is doo doo
    god not real
     
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  3. nhjed

    nhjed Celebrity Meeper

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    prove it
     
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  4. bloodyghost

    bloodyghost Deadest Staff Member Staff Member Mod

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    According to lore, when Jesus died he said that the old specific laws (no eating pork, no tattoos, etc) aren't really important anymore. what matters is the big picture. its really common to hear "the bible says no eating pork and Christians eat pork. God = false" but that's not how it works at all. That's why the bible is divided into two parts. A lot of stuff is still relevant from the old testament but not all the laws are required.

    Plus, groups like the Westboro baptist church are like the ISIS of Christianity; they don't provide an accurate example of what most Christians are like. Mostly the attitude towards homosexuality is "we don't recommend it but we still love you as a person."

    source: i live in the south
     
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  5. LargeUnit

    LargeUnit Well-Known Meeper

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    great work of fiction!
     
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  6. twomoo1119

    twomoo1119 Popular Meeper

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    No u


    Your making the claim here
     
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  7. alex77034

    alex77034 Hey baby, I hear the blues a-callin'

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    The source part got me. :p
     
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  8. MeepLord27

    MeepLord27 Popular Meeper

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    "God isn't real" Is a claim that needs proving.
     
  9. alex77034

    alex77034 Hey baby, I hear the blues a-callin'

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    What are you really making a case of? lol.
     
  10. MeepLord27

    MeepLord27 Popular Meeper

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    So eating pork was divinely wrong right up until Jesus decided it was ok? That seems awfully arbitrary.
     
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  11. twomoo1119

    twomoo1119 Popular Meeper

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    Nope

    I could say there is a giant panda bear the size of the sun floating somewhere in space. It would me my job to prove it, not your job to disprove it.

    Its the default position, I have nothing to disprove atm.
     
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  12. MeepLord27

    MeepLord27 Popular Meeper

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    Nope

    "X does not exist" is an affirmative claim stating the non-existence of something. It requires substantiating.
     
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  13. FamousZAmos

    FamousZAmos Popular Meeper

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    If you're making the claim, ANY claim, you're the one who has to back it up.

    I don't think conclusive, beyond-a-doubt proof can exist for religion. (Christian) Religion is based on faith, not actions, so having some kind of magic show where Jesus shows himself would kinda defeat the purpose.

    I think a more substantial debate would be "did Jesus exist?"

    Well there are a lot of different versions of the Bible where different books are discounted. I think personally the Old Testament is the history book / don't make these mistakes again kthx book, while the New Testament is more of a what to be like / what god can do for you sort of book.

    As I said before, proof of religion defeats the point. Can I prove Jesus was a real man who walked the earth around 30-0 BC? Definitely. Can I prove he was magic or divine or whatever? Not likely.
     
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  14. MeepLord27

    MeepLord27 Popular Meeper

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    You definitely can't prove he existed, and you can't prove he performed miracles.
     
  15. bloodyghost

    bloodyghost Deadest Staff Member Staff Member Mod

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    Well a lot of the specific laws pre-Jesus were made to keep the Jews safe from common health issues. For example, pork has to be prepared properly or else it can cause food poisoning pretty easily. They didn’t have a method to really cook things safely so it was for their own protection. Same reason why lepers were considered “unclean”: to keep the disease from spreading.
    Sort of like when a parent tells a small child they can’t have 17 popsicles and the child doesn’t understand. The important thing is that the child just does what they are told and they will understand why later on. Bible time Jews didn’t know why they shouldn’t eat pork, but they did what they were told, and now we understand why.
     
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  16. bloodyghost

    bloodyghost Deadest Staff Member Staff Member Mod

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    By this logic you could also say there’s no way to prove any Egyptian king ever existed, since all that exists are ancient manuscripts, hieroglyphics, and a burial site (pyramid)
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2018
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  17. MeepLord27

    MeepLord27 Popular Meeper

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    When we are talking about pork that might be true but this explanation doesn’t hold true for homosexuality, the slavery of non-Jews, and a host of other despicable moral propositions in the old bible.
    We have in many cases the physical remains of Egyptian kings. Past this no serious historian would claim historical account "proves" anything. Historical account, manuscripts, and testimonies are relied on only when there are no other alternatives - they give us a clue about what happened but the overwhelming majority of history and pre-history will be forever shrouded in doubt. Additionally even if you could prove "Jesus" existed you have no evidence of his miracles or any proof of his divinity.
     
  18. bloodyghost

    bloodyghost Deadest Staff Member Staff Member Mod

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    Most of them were beneficial for the Jews, even if we hold them to be dubious by today’s standards. Always confused me as well why slavery was ever allowed, so I can’t really argue against that point in particular.
    I think we can agree that it’s very possible he existed as a human being even if it isn’t “technically” prove-able. I see your point completely
     
  19. Muunkee

    Muunkee Legendary art supply hoarder

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    jesus exists. He mowed my lawn last week.
     
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  20. alex77034

    alex77034 Hey baby, I hear the blues a-callin'

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