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Atheists, convince me.

Discussion in 'Debates' started by nhjed, May 2, 2018.

  1. agnd

    agnd Well-Known Meeper Staff Member Helper

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    Yo, this debate is now all about the bible and technicalities, Ima try to switch it back.

    God's not real, argue with me.
     
  2. cooey

    cooey Legendary Meeper

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    The original name of the thread was "the bible is..."
    We didn't really get off topic.
     
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  3. nhjed

    nhjed Celebrity Meeper

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    you see, statements like these are very dumb dumb

    here’s my opinion: why would you have no faith at all, not wanting to try and believe a higher power, when it would do no harm to you whatsoever?

    poor analogy time!!:

    I don’t want to take the SAT class because it won’t help me. I’ll do fine on my SAT in 3 months.

    Well, how would you know that?

    you will never be able to prove why we exist, who/what created us, how’d we get here, ever — because backwards time travel is impossible. so how could you say one idea is wrong?

    the Big Bang (which is what I’m assuming you go by) is literally one of the dumbest theories, a dot magically exploding into a universe is the most farfetch’d thing I’ve ever heard. the Bible outright describes a higher power

    you may not be Christian bc the Bible is restrictive, but at the end of the day, no sin is worse than the other (which is hard to take in sometimes considering murder and all that ****, tbh I don’t know how that’s justifiable, it’s also something I can’t justify, because i am not God.)

    this sounds dumb but — what if God put all that “scientific evidence” (fossils, etc etc idk) there on purpose? actually it’s not dumb because — how would you prove me wrong?
     
  4. MeepLord27

    MeepLord27 Popular Meeper

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    This doesn't actually defend the epistemic truth claims made by religions. Religion might be useful for x, y, or z, but this usefullness is irrelevant when discussing the absolute truth of a claim.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 13, 2018, Original Post Date: May 13, 2018 ---
    Is this representation of the big bang what you learned in school? Can you find me a single reputable physicist who describes the big bang as a dot exploding into the universe? Also this entire argument is an argument from ignorance - even if we didn't know what created us we would rationally come to the default position of doubt. Religion is by no means the default claim that is retreated too when an explanation is needed.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 13, 2018 ---
    This is a textbook example of bad logic. Affirmative claims require substantiation before they need to be taken seriously. An unfalsifiable claim can be dismissed with no counterfactual required.
    Last Thursdayism - RationalWiki
     
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  5. agnd

    agnd Well-Known Meeper Staff Member Helper

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    Wait, not wanting to try? You make it sound like belief is the default position, that atheism is the lazier option. Obviously, you aren't an atheist. Clearly, you don't want to face the fact that your death is impending, inevitable, and eternal. I went to a Catholic school for 9 years, and in the beginning I believed in God. I chose to be an atheist after I thought about what I was learning. I won't just accept belief in God because it "would do no harm" to me.

    I can't. I can't prove you wrong, because God is not able to be proved false or true, and therefore, may be discarded scientifically.
     
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  6. nhjed

    nhjed Celebrity Meeper

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    i’m confused — so what would the Big Bang be? please describe the Big Bang to me¿ subatomic particles creating a burst of outward motion resulting in the universe? anything relating to that is more or less a dot exploding into life, lmao, my apologies you took that quite literally

    if you haven’t noticed religion doesn’t involve logic whatsoever, which is a huge weakness in arguments regarding creation vs. evolution I agree, but it’s a belief system — something that does not require proof, versus facts and evidence. in my opinion creation and evolution could easily coincide with each other. how would you prove it wrong? what I’m saying is, if the higher power is silent, how could you make an affirmative claim or whatever tf you said in the last paragraph bc honestly I’m too lazy to google

    the United States government is based off of religion, most countries if not all set their laws based off of religion (whether their beliefs are good or bad) — so saying we should not fall back on religion as a default is out of your control honestly
     
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  7. cooey

    cooey Legendary Meeper

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    You can be a creationist and believe in evolution.
     
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  8. MeepLord27

    MeepLord27 Popular Meeper

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    I'm no physicist and because the big bang theory has no relevancy to my life I don't take the time to research it. I highly doubtful if it was as laughable as you say it would be the accepted mainstream theory in academia right now.
     
  9. agnd

    agnd Well-Known Meeper Staff Member Helper

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    Couple thousand years ago, ancient civilizations saw a thunderstorm. They had no idea how it happened, no knowledge of its cause, and therefore, they attributed the phenomenon to the only then logical explanation - an All-Powerful Creator. Is this not the same? We see something we can not explain and just push it off on an omnipotent being. Our world is one of expanding knowledge, and as the reach of our knowledge grows, the need for a Creator lessens.
     
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  10. MeepLord27

    MeepLord27 Popular Meeper

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    I don't understand this. What are you referring to when you say "belief systems"? Why wouldn't a belief require proof?
    When I say default position I am talking about the assumed position when making an argument. The default position is always neutral skepticism.
    Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia
     
  11. alex77034

    alex77034 Hey baby, I hear the blues a-callin'

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    Wouldn’t this fall under the same situation as the big bang? We have little to no evidence of the Big Bang yet we push it off as the truth?
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
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  12. agnd

    agnd Well-Known Meeper Staff Member Helper

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    Noo because there is not only logic to the Big Bang but also it is open to doubt. We don't push it off as the truth, it's the Big Bang Theory
     
  13. alex77034

    alex77034 Hey baby, I hear the blues a-callin'

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    Although it’s taught as the truth in schools?
     
  14. agnd

    agnd Well-Known Meeper Staff Member Helper

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    This is a big generalization; I learned it as the most widely-accepted theory. Either way this is arbitrary, because the Big Bang is falsifiable, and so is not even in the same field as God would be.
     
  15. iiwars

    iiwars Celebrity Meeper

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    This thread makes no sense, Atheists do not hold the burden of proof. They lack the belief, so why should they try to attempt to try to change the others mind? Most Religious people act as if Atheist have no/lack morals. When it's just as easy as being respectful and civil. Yes, The Bible is a great thing for morals, especially when it was written. They didn't have easy ways to spread things. Some of the morals in The Bible have been dropped, because culture has changed from mass invading/colonizing. In the end, it's up to you how you wanna live your life. Some of us just wanna be a ban happy Admin. :woot:
     
  16. alex77034

    alex77034 Hey baby, I hear the blues a-callin'

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    Speaking from my experience, we weren’t taught the different perspectives and theories of creation. We were taught the Big Bang Theory, and the teachers widely accepted it as true. (At least when I was in middle school) Even though the Big Bang is accepted as the common ‘truth’ now, it wasn’t presented to us in the way it should of been, relative; they taught us in a way where there was no doubt that it wasn’t true.

    So, I may be generalizing only on my account, but we’re two people here.
     
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  17. FamousZAmos

    FamousZAmos Popular Meeper

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    please explain how the Big Bang is a repeatable experiment
     
  18. agnd

    agnd Well-Known Meeper Staff Member Helper

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    I said "there is logic to the Big Bang"
    You asked how the Big Bang is repeatable? I don't believe those are mutually inclusive
    Could you rephrase or something?
     
  19. cooey

    cooey Legendary Meeper

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    If there's logic to it, it should be repeatable.
     
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  20. MeepLord27

    MeepLord27 Popular Meeper

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