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Imperfectly

Discussion in 'Accepted' started by marshallmafers, Mar 20, 2017.

  1. marshallmafers

    marshallmafers Celebrity Meeper

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    Player you are reporting's IGN: Imperfectly

    Infraction Committed: Failed to pay back a loan/scamming

    Date of Infraction: 3/19/2017

    Summary of Infraction: 150k was loaned to Imperfectly on 3/10/2017 via Leona's Loaning services. The player had already agreed multiple times to the terms of service within the loan and it's contract.

    The 150k of my money given to Imperfectly which is still incase my money as stated in the terms he has agreed to, was given to NinjaRoxy. Thus in turn 150k of my money was given to NinjaRoxy via Imperfectly. Since Imperfectly has failed to pay back the loan within the given time period the 150k is being reposed.

    Evidence: http://i.imgur.com/x7DQNo9.png
    http://i.imgur.com/TtTLW3n.png
    http://i.imgur.com/FBwIrzR.png?1
    Leona's Loaning Service

    It was required in order for him to be accepted for the loan he need to have at least 50k worth of items either on his person or meebles. Which explains why he has 200k in the screenshot.


    Evidence of Infraction:

    Please give any other information you might think is useful for us to know: As long as the money is given back to me via NinjaRoxy or Imperfectly himself then I do not wish to follow with legal actions.
     
  2. KlutchDecals

    KlutchDecals The Real Ironman Staff Member Administrator

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    You loaned money to Imper.

    Ninja is not responsible for your loans. You cant use prism to track down who the money was paid to and demand refunds from them.

    This is exactly why we dont deal with loans, and we dont refund them anyway.
     
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  3. marshallmafers

    marshallmafers Celebrity Meeper

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    In the terms Imperfectly agreed to states that anything he buys is automatically my property until the loan is paid back. In this case he gave the 150k of my money to Ninja. Since he failed to pay back the 150k I loaned him and in the terms it states the 150k is still mine until it's paid off, the 150k given to Ninja is still my money.

    I'm not asking for a refund. I'm asking for the 150k given to Ninja via Imper with my money be returned.
     
  4. Deinen

    Deinen S'all Good Man

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    You should honestly shut this service down or not ban for defaults. What this "loan service" does, ultimately, is cause people to get banned, which hurts the server.
     
  5. marshallmafers

    marshallmafers Celebrity Meeper

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    Don't pull that card out. This service was suppose to help players buy vip rank or above. In which it has for multiple players several times. It's goal is not to ban players you're just saying that to make this worse than it already is.
     
  6. Deinen

    Deinen S'all Good Man

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    Your legal claim is strenuous at best and at worse it's already causing the server to lose 1 player, and penalizing an innocent player of 150k. The second Imperfectly gave that money to Ninjaroxy, who did not enter in an agreement with you, it became her possession and nobody elses.

    Your claim it helps people buy ranks isn't valid because if they take out a loan with the expectation of a 7 day repayment, they could just save up for 7 days to purchase the rank without the interest included. The upside to this scheme is that you, singularly, profit. However the downside, as we're already seeing, is that it is actively causing the server to lose players.

    Loans should not be moderated, but the lender should do their due diligence before handing out loans and making sure they can absorb the loss should the loanee default on payment.

    @Deljikho would be a good example of a good lending service. If I recall correctly, he lent out to quite a few people. However he did his due diligence before each person, resulting in only 1 person defaulting on all the loans he gave.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
  7. marshallmafers

    marshallmafers Celebrity Meeper

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    The server would not 'lose' one player if the money returns to it's rightful owner. ''Innocent'' Imperfectly had 7 days to pay back the loan. He didn't even make an attempt to pay one penny back, It's almost as if he was never going to pay it back in the first place. If anything the server is losing someone who takes advantage of others. The second Imperfectly gave my 150k to NinjaRoxy only made this more complicated. The 150k was never Imperfectly's, He was only borrowing money that was never his in the first place. Thus it's still my money and needs to be returned with no further problems.

    It does help players buy ranks, It's already helped serval. The required deposit for vip is 30k. Meaning the player has 7 days to pay back 70k with 10% interest on the loaned rank. If they can save up the 100k for the rank then that's also perfectly fine. This service helps those who don't have the money on the spot to pay for something they want right now. How do you think banks make money? Do they just give you a loaned amount and not except any kind of fee or interest rates? It's not rocket science that a % interest rate would be charged with loans. That's the point.

    The 150k loaned to Imperfectly was never his money. He gave it to a third party who is now dragged into this. That is Imperfectlys fault not mine.
     
  8. Deinen

    Deinen S'all Good Man

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    Your claim that the money is still yours is not valid, proven false by all the legal precedents currently existing. It's clearly established once an item / money / possession is no longer on your possession or in your direct control, you lose ownership. This is why when someone drops an item on the ground, it's fair game. It's also why if someone accidently sends money to an unintended person, that recipient has no obligation to send the money back. Player agreements don't supercede server policy / precedent.

    Additionally, the use of banks in comparison is null and void, because defaulting on a bank loan does not cause the borrower to go to prison, or in this case a ban. Banks also do their due diligence before lending money, which you failed to do, because if you had it would have been readily apparent with Imperfectly's history that they would most likely default on that loan. You made a risky move and now are relying on server staff and an innocent person (NinjaRoxy) to pay in time and resource to fix the mistake that originated with you.

    It was I that formed the server's loan policy, and the reason why it was put into place was to deter people from making loans without doing any due diligence to people they should not loan money too, then demand the server to fix it. It's also clear from the onset you have been attempting to navigate around the policies currently in place, in order to do the very thing the server is trying to prevent.
     
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  9. marshallmafers

    marshallmafers Celebrity Meeper

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    ''Scamming
    • Any attempt to deceive another player for gain (usually monetary, or for items) with promise of a service, or money and failing to follow through with the deal made.''
    I don't see anywhere in the rules where it says anything about loaning. I don't understand what you're trying to say with this as to my knowledge does not exist in the rules.

    Such examples as dropping items or giving money to the wrong person are perfect examples of something else. Imperfectly was asked multiple times about the loan and it's terms of service. As to which he agreed to every single one of them. This is completely different from what you're rambling on about.

    About banks though you forgot something so important. Lets say you want to buy a car, the bank loans you money to buy the car, but it's not your car it's the banks. And guess what happens when you don't pay back the bank the money you owe it in a certain amount of time? You default on the loan, the bank takes repossession of it's property. My due diligence to trust Imperfectly was obv a mistake as a player with a history of scamming, cheating, and hacking was clearly not a wise choice. Either way, he borrowed money from me to pay off a debt to NinjaRoxy. He gave money that was never his to pay off a debt. I'm relying on NinjaRoxy to give me my money back, and the server to ban/temp-ban Imperfectly for scamming me. ''Resource and time'' All she literally has to do is /pay SimpleArchitect 150000 that was never hers. (so hard, I know)

    What loan policy? It does not exist, I cannot find it.
     
  10. Muunkee

    Muunkee Legendary art supply hoarder

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    Did she have knowledge of the loan prior to this? Did she agree to pay you this money? How is she responsible in any way shape or form? In reality, she shouldnt even be involved in the situation whatsoever - it was hers once it was given to her
     
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  11. marshallmafers

    marshallmafers Celebrity Meeper

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    This would be the case if such a thing as ''Terms of Service'' existed. Before being accepted for the loan Imperfectly was notified several times about the Terms of Service regarding the loan. In which it states
    ''Anything bought with the loaned amount is automatically my property until the loan is paid off. If you default on your loan the items you've paid for with the loaned money automatically becomes mine. If you cannot pay off the loan within the 7 days you'll be required to pay back the remaining amount that is your balance and the items you bought with the loaned money.''
    source: Leona's Loaning Service
    Meaning Imperfectly used my money to pay off a debt owed to NinjaRoxy. Money that was never Imperfectlys in the first place. Simply because you let your friend borrow your car, and they decide to give it to their friend does not automatically make it their car. There is still paper work etc in your name stating the car belongs to you. In this case the terms of service is that paperwork.
     
  12. Deinen

    Deinen S'all Good Man

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    It doesn't matter what you write, lol

    I am a millionaire

    Nope, didn't work. Reality is, Ninja is not responsible for your loan, nor should she be penalized in anyway. The money wasn't yours the second you used /pay
     
  13. marshallmafers

    marshallmafers Celebrity Meeper

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    What are you implying that it doesn't matter what I write? Even though I'm correct, your only way to continue this pointless argument is to say that nothing I say matters even though I'm 100% in the right?

    Either way Imperfectly scammed me 150k. And you still haven't shown me where it says in the rules about anything on loaning that apparently you wrote or something.
     
  14. NachoNational

    NachoNational Popular Meeper

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    When Imperfectly agreed to the loan, he must pay it back. When he refused, it makes him no longer "innocent".

    Ok Mr. Lawyer. relax. Ninja doesn't need to pay you back and it's not your money. Imperfectly has to pay you back.
     
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  15. Deinen

    Deinen S'all Good Man

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    My implication is your agreement is with Imperfectly and nobody else, thus Ninjaroxy was not part of the agreement and has no business in this situation. Nobody is arguing that Imperfectly didn't scam you, but the standing policy is loans are not refunded, which is what this is. Nothing you write or have in agreement with any other player changes this situation. You have no grounds to demand money from Ninjaroxy, as she entered into no agreement with you.

    I was referring to Ninjaroxy, as his claim that she needs to give him 150,000 would essentially be penalizing an innocent player.
     
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  16. Muunkee

    Muunkee Legendary art supply hoarder

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    "Anything bought with the loaned amount is automatically my property until the loan is paid off."
    Did imper buy anything?
    Nooooo?

    Then the money ninja has is completely and totally unrelated as nothing was purchased and imper did not receive anything

    Granted it's a scam maybe but you saying ninja is even in any way involved is ridiculous. It is imper you're fighting with not roxy LOL

    No, what you want is what imper received in RETURN FOR what he gave to Roxy.

    He didnt get anything from Roxy, therefore, he has nothing to give you, but roxy still isnt involved
     
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  17. SuperDyl

    SuperDyl Well-Known Meeper

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    Sadly, in this case, it appears that @NinjaRoxy is innocent. The agreement states that the player with the loan must give all items purchased with the money and the remaining money in their account. The money was no longer in Imperfectly's account. For this reason, the money no longer is imperfectly's and instead, any items the 150,000 was used for should be given to @Deinen .

    Though the money counts as @Deinen 's property, it should be noted that the wording implies that the money only remains property of @Deinen through it's existence in the loaned player's account, or through any items the player purchased with the loaned money.

    @NinjaRoxy shouldn't have to pay back the loan because the money is now @NinjaRoxy 's. Any items Imperfectly recieved in return from the purchase belong to @Deinen , along with the remaining meebles in Imperfectly's account, but this is as far as the wording works.

    To summarize: @NinjaRoxy owe's nothing. @Deinen should receive any items purchased with the loan and the remaining meebles in Imperfectly's account. This is based off of the wording of the loan agreement.


    Also, sorry to post on a ban appeal, since I don't think I'm supposed to...
     
  18. OldColony

    OldColony Popular Meeper

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    This is why I don't trust people with paying debts if it's not enforced by staff.

    In the future if you do this (if you still are continuing this) make sure that you can trust them to not go inactive, or not upkeep on their promises.
     
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  19. buttfly29

    buttfly29 Popular Meeper

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    NOPE, you can write almost anything, doesn't mean we have to follow it.
     
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  20. Marshy_88

    Marshy_88 Popular Meeper

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    I warned you on your loaning service. Staff have no obligation to f=refund this or ban him. Staff has nothing to do with loans. This has been the rule for YEARS. You made a faulty service, and someone toke advantage of it before someone else took advantage of it. Deal with it. At no point when they agreed did they agree to your terms. Your terms are worthless in the eyes of staff.
     

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