1. Hi there Guest! You should join our Minecraft server @ meepcraft.com
  2. We also have a Discord server that you can join @ https://discord.gg/M53X5Zz
  3. Purchase a rank upgrade and get it instantly in-game! Upgrade Now

Is God real?

Discussion in 'Debates' started by n00bslayer_99, Nov 11, 2014.

  1. Amunherkhepeshef

    Amunherkhepeshef Celebrity Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    2,883
    Likes Received:
    6,474
    I suppose the one with the large skull is the one insulting others for not believing in something with no proof to support it
     
    WeAreNumberUno likes this.
  2. TimtheFireLord

    TimtheFireLord Celebrity Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    3,711
    Likes Received:
    6,462
    I don't personally think it makes much sense for God to be real but if it comforts other people to think that death isn't permanent then who am I to stop them.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 1, 2016, Original Post Date: Jul 1, 2016 ---
    1. The Big Bang, though a credible theory, describes a transition of matter in a centralized location to across the universe. Where then, did the matter come from?

    My own idea of how the "Big Bang" started is that there hasn't just been one big bang, and the universe has never truly ended. I like to think that the universe has always been around and that there is no start or end. I think that each universal "incarnation" eventually expands beyond being able to sustain any matter ( see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe for a more in depth explanation of this) and "ends." However, the matter that used to comprise the known universe is still there, it is just dispersed so sparsely that it is essentially gone. It can remain this way for an indefinite amount of time until somehow, somewhere, a few of the pieces of atoms of the "old" universe bump into each other in such a way that the first "new" atom is formed. Eventually this reaction cascades into the reformation of the universe into a new shape and configuration, eventually forming new planets and galaxies with new life on them. This would be what we refer to as a "Big Bang." But since the universe is always expanding due to entropy, that universe will eventually disperse and repeat the cycle. Universes are in an infinite, empty void and there are probably multiple universes within that space sharing the same amount of matter, swapping things when they die and reform. Now this is by no means an actual scientific theory, I just spent a period of Chem 2 thinking about this instead of doing my work, but I think it actually makes a lot of sense.


    2. Obviously, all Atheists believe the Bible is false, can you show me any archeological evidence against the New Testament?

    Well I mean, there isn't any archeological evidence for it either. The only things that can be proven is that it takes place in the middle east and that's about it. None of the things that happen in it can be proven, they just got locations and stuff right because that's where the authors lived. However, this is loads of evidence against just the Great Flood alone so I'm not gonna get into this really. this is where we start to tread territory that no one can confirm simply because the book is so damn old.

    3. Isn't the argument "there is no God" also an https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance
    since this falls under options 1-4 depending on your position?

    I don't quite understand what you are trying to say here. No-one can definitively say that god is or isn't real, and anyone who does is a fool, if that's what you're trying to get across. Could you clarify?


    Thank you, these were good questions.
     
    CluelessKlutz, Splendy and Qaztar like this.
  3. CluelessKlutz

    CluelessKlutz King of the Nerds Staff Member Super Mod

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,609
    Likes Received:
    3,287
    My apologies for the delay in responding, I will explain why later on.
    Thank you very much for your honesty. In truth, no one knows all the answers.
    This is an intriguing idea. However, this is essentially another form of the Big Bang. Essentially, this means our universe was formed from another. If you follow the logic, we end up with, "Where did that universe come from?" The only way to follow this logic as you have suggested would conclude the universe has always existed, which is currently assumed to be false. We have fairly solid evidence the universe began somewhere, which is why we have theories such as the Big Bang.
    I don't believe I conveyed my idea as well as I originally had envisioned, allow me to explain. My personal belief is once a person is condemned to the Lake of Fire, it is not 100% permanent, no way out. Several Biblical passages refer to repentance as the way out. Think of it this way, a child rebels against his father. Though the father does not wish to punish the child, he knows said child has done wrong. Therefore, it is the punishment of waiting them out. Letting them to make their own conclusion to change, as a way of apologizing. Sin, depending on your perception of it, is an infinite crime because not only are you rebelling against God, but not changing is essentially the same as doing it over and over.
    This area is my reason for a delayed response. Now, to address this area fully, I am currently researching to support my claim of New Testament historical accuracy. Due to the differences in both time period and origin, I do not feel the Old and New Testaments prove or disprove the other. Remember, they were written in vastly different environments. Much more of the New Testament can be tested, due to its newer age (compared to the Old Testament). One thing I would like to point out regarding historical accuracy, a very common arguement is the Gospels were written late enough after Christ's death that legend had corrupted the story. Therefore, I would like to remind everyone of Alexander the Great. His biography is considered accurate by historical definition, but it was written approximately 450 years after his death. Depending on your assessment, the Gospels were written between 40 AD and 100 AD. Considering the maximum possible is sixty years, I would propose legends would not be as likely. Again, I am currently conducting further research in this area, to address your desire for a BoP. In the meantime, I will answer your questions.
    1. Obviously, a debate in which I do not care if I am right is not even worth arguing. Therefore, I answer yes.
    2.My primary reason for belief is not "It's how I was raised," as some have said. My own reason is personal experience. Several instances in my life that are very large "coincidences" after doing something that would be considered religious.
    3. If you can prove experiences wrong based on my limited viewpoint, than very well. Consider it the incredulity logical fallacy, but based on sheer probability, the exact miracles in my own life have a next to nonexistent probability.
    Thank you, for well though-out questions. If I may, would you answer the same questions in reverse? It does not add data to our debate, but it is helpful to comprehend where the opposition is coming from. Once again, I am currently researching historical and archaeological accuracy of the New Testament, and will address this when I have collected sufficient data.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2016
  4. jmw4

    jmw4 Popular Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    71
    Read my signature.
     
  5. CluelessKlutz

    CluelessKlutz King of the Nerds Staff Member Super Mod

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,609
    Likes Received:
    3,287
    Not to be rude, but how does this contribute to the debate at all? If you wish to enter a debate, please supply at least a reason behind your claim. Again, I am not trying to come off as hateful, but I do not feel this helps anyone.
     
  6. jmw4

    jmw4 Popular Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    71
    mys signature says i believe in jesus christ?
     
  7. Amunherkhepeshef

    Amunherkhepeshef Celebrity Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    2,883
    Likes Received:
    6,474
    and it proves nothing
     
  8. CluelessKlutz

    CluelessKlutz King of the Nerds Staff Member Super Mod

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,609
    Likes Received:
    3,287
    Exactly, I can claim anything I like, but it doesn't prove that those statements are real. Please supply why you believe in Jesus Christ. If you do not, your arguement is invalid, and of no worth. Again, my intent is not to sound hateful.
    Side note: Please work on your capitalization; Jesus Christ is a proper noun, and a sentence starts with a capital, thank you!
     
  9. MoonlitMadness

    MoonlitMadness Popular Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    911
    Likes Received:
    4,584
    not gonna jump into this to debate but again express my belief.

    I'm Catholic, and I go to church every single sunday. There's a lot of reasons why I do.

    a. I'm an optimist, and I like to believe that "My heart will go on" persay. I like to know that my loved ones that leave this Earth go to a better place, in which they can rest easily, because when I die, I hope my life doesn't die, There's a gut feeling that even when I die, i'll still live per say, in my heart and mind, I'm so used ti being able to live and see everything and breathe fresh air and see the trees, and I really hope heaven is for real, and if it isn't than at least I lived my life with joy and being hopeful, than always thinking about my death and believing this, imperfect world is as good as it gets.
    b. I've always thought the fact that I'm on this planet is a mystery. Out of the millions of potential DNA strands, and the fact that my mom and dad made me at the exact time they needed to to get me, that's almost impossible to think that there wasn't a god factor there, I look like ME. I have copper hair, big cheekbones, hazel eyes, and i can curl my tongue. My genetic and physical makeup is strictly to me, and nobody else, and the fact that I'M here makes me believe that a supernatural being placed me here, in this world.
    c. I have my own story, and there are mistakes I've made for sure, but there's morals and rules I live by to make me feel, like a better person, not to say people who don't believe don't have morals, respectively, but as a Christian, I'm given the rules God wants me to follow, and while I screw up, It's ok! I'm human. No matter how big, or small it is, I know eventually the wounds I cause will heal. I feel like my life is like "The road less taken by" by Robert Frost. There are 2 roads in the clearing, in a gentle soft wood, and I have to make a descision, I can go the easy way, or I can take a risk. And i feel like those paths are made by God, laid out for me particularly, and nobody else.

    again nothing here is to say that I don't agree with you all, everyone has valid points for why they do or don't. For one thing I was raised Catholic, I've been spoon fed these ideas by my parents, just as some of you have been spood fed the ideas that he isn't and to each his own. This is not to contradict anyonr, I don't love debating. This is just my belief :) thanks and have a good day !
     
    Nager2015 and builderjunkie012 like this.
  10. Aarett

    Aarett Popular Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    758
    Likes Received:
    580
    (to answer the thread's question) yes
     
    SuperDyl and MoonlitMadness like this.
  11. Blue_Marlin

    Blue_Marlin Popular Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,183
    Likes Received:
    295
    I still question that myself actually, I come from a rather large Christian family and although I believe in a higher power I still struggle with something I don't see. My family tells me to "just have faith", although I feel I am blessed by him everyday with making sure I have a home, food and staying healthy and I do pray but what am I actually praying to?
     
    Nager2015 and Aarett like this.
  12. Supreme_Overlord

    Supreme_Overlord Popular Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    295
    Likes Received:
    440
    There's a point where optimism becomes wishful thinking. If there's something that you hope is true and there is only a bit of evidence for it, I think that being optimistic and believing that it's true is okay. If, however, there is no sufficient evidence for something, being optimistic and believing that it's true is the same thing is essentially wishful thinking. I think that it would be difficult to find any stable people who truly do not want there to be an afterlife like Heaven. We are biologically programmed to want to survive and, for the most part, people don't want to believe that this impermanent life is all that there is; however, a desire to believe something doesn't justify the belief. I might desire to belief that I will get superpowers next week or that I am the most attractive person on the face of the Earth, but that doesn't mean that I'm justified in believing these things.
    I mean, we can explain how you, I, and other humans biologically developed and came into existence, but sure, on a broader scale, I will agree with you that existence is kind of a mystery. Even though there is still a LOT to learn, we are learning more and more about the evolution of our universe and humans within it, which we will continue to do; however, whatever caused the universe to come into existence (if anything) will probably remain a mystery to us. Perhaps our universe exists on its own, perhaps it is part of a multiverse that contains an infinite number of evolving and devolving universes, perhaps God or some other being created our universe. When it comes to evidence, we have no idea what the answer is, which does not inherently point to it being God.
    It seems like you saying that you feel like God laid two paths out for you is the only part of this section that is really giving a reason for why you believe that he exists, so I'll respond to that: Saying that you are faced with multiple choices and that your choices and paths are unique to you is simply describing the way that things are for everyone. While it's true that everyone has their own life with its own paths and choices, there isn't any reason that this inherently points towards the existence of God.
    Well, you did post this in the debates section. You can believe what you wish to believe, of course, but the fun of the debates section is debating people's reasons for their beliefs!
    I was raised as a Christian in a Christian family too, but I became an atheist. While I respect and love my parents a lot, being raised with specific beliefs (even when you are raised in a good way) has no effect on whether or not the beliefs are justified or good.
     
    2legacybball and Blue_Marlin like this.
  13. SuperDyl

    SuperDyl Active Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    362
    Likes Received:
    195
    I think a large division between atheists/agnostics and those that have a religion and a God they believe in is evidence. Science is a method to find evidence to explain anything to someone else using this evidence. This is a sound method, but religion relies a large portion on faith. Faith is also based on finding evidence to explain something, but evidence from faith cannot truly be shared in the way evidence from science can.

    Different religions will explain why faith is needed instead of God's existence being shown to ach individual in a way they can never dispute of His existence. This relies heavily on each religion, so I will not explain any further with this question unless asked.

    A great example of the difference between understanding is this story (which I have summarized):

    A religious man is on a plane next to an atheist. Throughout the ride, the atheist bashes against religion. When the religious man tried to explain why he had faith in his religion, the man said he couldn't accept what the religious man said, as words like spiritual held no meaning if the religious man couldn't explain them without other religious terms. After some thought, the religious man had a thought come to him.

    "Do you know what salt tastes like?" Said the religious man. The atheist was confused, this question seemed off topic.

    “Of course I do,” was the athiest's reply.

    “Then,” Said the religious man, “assuming that I have never tasted salt, explain to me just what it tastes like.”

    The atheist tried multiple times, but he came upon the same blocks as the religious man had while trying to explain his reasons for his faith. Eventually, the man found it impossible to adequately explain what salt tastes like, just as the religious man found it impossible to adequately explain what his faith felt like.

    It can be seen that, though many things can be explained, language and personal knowledge can prevent us from truly communicating certain ideas, such as faith and even taste.

    "We do not learn spiritual things in exactly the same way we learn other things that we know, even though such things as reading, listening, and pondering may be used."

    The story and quote come from Boyde K. Packer and the entire talk can be read on this webpage: The Candle of the Lord - Ensign Jan. 1983 - ensign
     
    Vamp1re_Man likes this.
  14. Blue_Marlin

    Blue_Marlin Popular Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,183
    Likes Received:
    295
    @Supreme_Overlord sometimes it can be tough living in a Christian family. I still have some beliefs, but I guess I'll try to learn, keep my faith and go on. I honestly don't really think about it unless I was truly blessed by something or want something (not like a new car, my wants meaning like someone to be healed of a sickness, someone to stay safe on a trip etc.) I'm still learning. I wouldn't say I was an atheist (although that works for some people, my grandfather and cousin are both atheist). My other family members feel like they are "sick" and pray for them to get better. Which I don't think their views are changing. I believe in something I just don't know what, yet. Even though I'm 18 I'm still young and have much to experience in my life still.
     
    Twomoo likes this.
  15. Twomoo

    Twomoo Well-Known Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    246
    Should a Jew get into this?

    Eh why the heck not:

    Personally I just like to go by many of the "mitzvot" of the Torah and find them to be a fairly good moral system however, I don't really believe in "God" as an entity or existing thus, kashrut isn't really a big deal to me.
     
  16. WeAreNumberUno

    WeAreNumberUno Popular Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,950
    Likes Received:
    1,477
    No, your opinion is not valid.

    I was raised religious, then became atheist. I've tasted salt and decided I didn't like it.
     
  17. SuperDyl

    SuperDyl Active Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    362
    Likes Received:
    195
    That is another thing, we each can, and must, decide ourselves what we think is true in matters of religion.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
  18. cooey

    cooey Celebrity Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    3,533
    Likes Received:
    9,540
    Bump this thread, if anyone wants to state their believes or quote a previous post that still stands, that would be great xd
     
  19. MeepLord27

    MeepLord27 Well-Known Meeper

    Offline
    Messages:
    447
    Likes Received:
    367
  20. Kling

    Kling Break blocks not hearts Staff Member Super Mod

    Offline
    Messages:
    1,408
    Likes Received:
    4,487
    If there is a powerful o mighty god they are a cruel one..
     

Share This Page