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Minimum Wages

Discussion in 'Debates' started by Daniel Thompson, Apr 10, 2017.

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Do you think minimum wage would help your economy and its people?

  1. Yes, this would seriously help.

    43.8%
  2. This may help, but may not.

    12.5%
  3. No, increasing it will damage the economy and the people.

    37.5%
  4. I'm not really sure about it.

    6.3%
  1. Erebus45

    Erebus45 Celebrity Meeper

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    I think this is one of the best solutions.
     
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  2. Daniel Thompson

    Daniel Thompson Well-Known Meeper

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    See, its a good idea, but it may be a better idea to maybe do it in more of a state minimum wage. Because in comparison to Australia we have 6 states and 2 territories (another kind of state that's different) and America has 52 states, which would be harder to keep a sustainable amount on the minimum wage to start with. So it might be a better idea instead of local/council areas to probably have it state-wide. And I'd think it's a better idea to give people a better education towards spending, saving, loans and along money wise to give people a better idea of that.

    Agreed, this has been the best idea in this whole debate (but might want to have it as state-wide.... maybe).
     
  3. Natsu

    Natsu Popular Meeper

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    In the United States they have state minimum wages already that are higher than the federal minimim wage. However, there are many economic differences between areas within states. For example, there are a lot more people in poverty in the cities, so we should probably increase minimum wage there since everything is already expensive in the cities, and they can use a little more funding. College towns do not need to increase minimum wage, as there are so many people willing to work, not being forced to work, at a low wage.

    (Also the US has 50 states, 1 District of Columbia, and some commonwealths)
     
  4. MeepLord27

    MeepLord27 Popular Meeper

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    If you are here illegally you are a criminal.
    A criminal is a person who breaks the law.
    You can eat, its just that you will be poor. If you have any marketable skills, you can make more than that amount of money. While I myself have had the privilege of never having to support myself on a minimum wage job my friend did it for about 3 months and he was able to feed himself and his sibling. They didn't have a lot of disposable income but they could afford there needs. I am 100% sure that if you tighten your belt you can survive off a minimum wage.

    K.
     
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  5. Blue_Marlin

    Blue_Marlin Popular Meeper

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    @Daniel Thompson Can you please explain in detail and with real sources and real proof that the United States of America created ISIS, is the reason we do not have world peace and has a Muslim ban. These three things you have said, stuck with and actually believe and it hit me the wrong way. It's okay to talk down about other countries but make sure you are talking down on things that are actually true, especially something as serious as those.

    2nd, I still don't want to meet you lol

    3rd don't try to throw shade at me and then not expect a reply LOL

    @Natsu 700,000 people is a lot of people, just not for the size of Alaska.

    I could agree to more education instead of a higher minimum wage.
     
  6. Daniel Thompson

    Daniel Thompson Well-Known Meeper

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    Congratulations you broke one of your 3 step rule of "TALKING ABOUT THE SUBJECT" You are so funny to be the kid who makes up these excuses.

    I still do.

    What? You do it all the time, and you don't care about it. So why should I do the same thing then? So you can make up another comeback of yours? No thanks.

    That's a pretty good point you've made. Yeah great choice to have it local.

    I am actually very curious, so what are the others apart from the 50 states then?

    Ever watched Fahrenheit 9/11? Most of the details and sources are from there. Plus, it has been proven that a plane crash in those towers wasn't enough to collapse the building.

    Oh yeah, talk s*** about other countries, but when its a serious and true subject "Strictly Off Limits". That just makes you more of a hypocrite for saying that. Australia has had Sieges, Threats, and Attacks, but do you see us crying? No, we continue to stand united as the lucky country we are. Which is your problem to stand united, besides aren't you the UNITED States of America? Suck it up, its happened, accept it as a dark side of history and move on in life. Because you must see the dark side before discovering the light. If you disagree, you are beyond repair, so please be wise about your next post.
     
  7. Blue_Marlin

    Blue_Marlin Popular Meeper

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    We're the United States of America
    Not
    the United Countries of America.... just to let that be clarified.

    I don't make "rules" I just make my points in a
    1.)
    2.)
    3.)
    Method - i feel it makes it easier to write what I am saying. I don't do it to be disrespectful or make anyone seem stupid. It's easier for me.

    I have not said one bad thing about Australia or Canada or any other country (excluding the 7 Trump banned) and I certainly have not talked bad about any other country on THIS thread.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 17, 2017, Original Post Date: May 17, 2017 ---
    I am unwatching this thread so I will no longer be replying. Nice debating with everyone! Enjoy!
     
  8. Natsu

    Natsu Popular Meeper

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    The US has 50 states
    The US has something called insular areas
    The US capital is a seperate district
     
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  9. Daniel Thompson

    Daniel Thompson Well-Known Meeper

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    Then why make these "rules" anyway if no one is going to do it, like you?

    Oh I'm sorry, I didn't see that you weren't countries you're states, that's why its in the title of your COUNTRY'S NAME.

    On other threads you most certainly have, what makes this thread any different? Plus you have actually, Mexico. Also you pushing others like me from Australia and others from countries like Canada are extremely rude as you aren't letting us speak about our ideas and suggestions on the matter is being as rude as saying a bad thing to another country. So clean up your act and be more open minded on the subject, especially someone who hasn't been on minimum wage or knows what it's like to be paid that little.
    (Plus thank you for unwatching this, you seem to be the one causing the most chaos in here anyway).
     
  10. Ranger0203

    Ranger0203 Popular Meeper

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    Because they are, by definition, aliens.
    a·li·en
    ˈālēən/
    adjective
    1. 1.
      belonging to a foreign country or nation.
    2. noun
    1. 1.
      a foreigner, especially one who is not a naturalized citizen of the country where they are living.
      "an illegal alien"
      Or you could call them criminals, aliens, or illegal immigrants.
      Nobody said life was easy.
      Better than you; you'd run your country into the ground.
      I don't know how things are done in Australia, but a bank trip takes me 10 minutes max. And 15 minutes to drive round trip.
    You think that companies will higher more expensive workers over cheaper ones?
    You mean taxpayers pay for condoms for everyone.
    "Once a minor is legally emancipated, parents no longer have to feed, house, or pay child support for the emancipated minor. Kicking an underage child (meaning under 18 in most states) out of the house, without the child being emancipated, can often be considered child abandonment, which is a crime."

    Again, you could call them criminals, illegal immigrants, or illegal aliens.
    What, pick fruit? It's called unskilled labor for a reason...
    We know.
    Try this think called google. It's really helpful if you want to learn what a word means.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 17, 2017, Original Post Date: May 17, 2017 ---
    You do know that aliens can be humans, right? If I went to Morocco I would be an alien.
     
  11. Deinen

    Deinen S'all Good Man

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    @Ranger0203 But what is the solution if intentions and actuality never meet? I can absolutely accept your point that fast food work was never meant to be a full time job people were meant to survive on. However, it doesn't change the reality that people have to take these jobs when there is lack of work elsewhere.

    Setting aside "how things should be" or it's intention - Can you agree that propping up wages gives people more disposable income to put into the economy, which helps everybody? Additionally, can you agree that if we were in a situation with higher wages less employers would have their labor costs subsidized through welfare to it's workers - Which eases the burden on the government, freeing money for ot her programs/improvements or to be given back to the citizens?
     
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  12. Ranger0203

    Ranger0203 Popular Meeper

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    Ye-es, to a certain extent.
    Eeeh, not really. Raising the lowest wages tends to have a snowball effect as people in the next wage group up say "Why should I work for as much as them when they're new and I have years of experience?" and that can kind of snowball up I think...

    But I'd agree that it helps low-income workers.
    Yes. I think this would happen though if we got rid of the welfare programs, because then that would (theoretically) drastically reduce the number of people willing to work for such a low wage.
    True, but I don't trust the government to spend it wisely xD
     
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  13. Deinen

    Deinen S'all Good Man

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    Well that wasn't inherently my point and I think you knew that, nice try though. ;)

    But to address this. If you had a choice of working for $7.50 an hour 20 hours a week, or starving in the street. Which option would you choose? This is why what you stated simply wouldn't work because people will take those jobs, because while it shouldn't be that way, it is.

    I can agree with this point. Some industries perhaps this wouldn't work well, or in some regions which is why I get the argument against a flat federal minimum wage. But then again, States aren't necessarily known for decent labor laws. For example, many states don't require your employer to give you any breaks or lunches at work.

    But looking at Walmart, which is a corporate owner non-franchised business, how many of their $10 an hour employees do we subsidize the rest of their cost? Why should I, as a taxpayer, help cover the labor cost of one of the largest corporations in the world so they can earn more money each corner by cutting labor costs, to appease their shareholders? I applaud the capitalist market and ideology, but why am I on the dime for them?

    Or why should I help finance a power plant for a massive utility company so they can charge me for electricity to turn a profit?

    I get feeling like you shouldn't be on the hook financially for other people, yet I rarely hear these arguments from you, instead you question why you should help your fellow man?

    I found this quote on the interwebz and it really illuminates perhaps a good reason of why you should financially help your fellow man.

    “I ask, why should I pay for a bridge I don’t cross, a sidewalk I don’t walk on, a library book I don’t read? Why should I pay for a flower I won’t smell, a park I don’t visit, or art I can’t appreciate? Why should I pay the salaries of politicians I didn’t vote for, a tax cut that doesn’t affect me, or a loophole I can’t take advantage of?

    “It’s called democracy, a civil society, the greater good. That’s what we pay for.”
     
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  14. Ranger0203

    Ranger0203 Popular Meeper

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    Yeah I know. I think we pretty much agree on the practical effects of raising the minimum wage.
    True enough. Wage's best friend is an overabundance of jobs... But the government forgets that and so whenever we have a shortage in one area they import workers from Mexico or India or another place, which drives wages down.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 18, 2017, Original Post Date: May 18, 2017 ---
    I agree with this 100%.
    Also this.
    Yeah, my main argument against welfare is that it makes me responsible for other people. I also absolutely believe in giving to charity/helping other people out, I just don't believe that I can force anyone else to live how I want them to. I personally plan to give some of my income every year to charity once I'm earning enough for myself. I just don't think it should be mandatory for everyone to do it.
    This is all different from forced charity though... Parks, Bridges, and other Public works are available to anyone at any time. Ditto for library books (once you get your card). Whether or not you choose to use them is up to you; we can't force anyone to drive over a bridge. Politicians all work to represent us, whether you elected them or not. You don't pay for tax cuts or loopholes... Although I agree that those should be disposed of; in my opinion a flat tax would be better.
     
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  15. Daniel Thompson

    Daniel Thompson Well-Known Meeper

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    I do agree that there are good and bad things to raising wages, but the good (in my way of seeing it) hugely surpasses the bad things.

    So your asking everyone (for example) doing public transport jobs to get a better job? Then that would end up being a disaster for all those doing the job as it will cause a shortage of drivers and would destroy the transport industry.

    I think I've explained all those in one wage group is a type of communism, but they should all get a general pay increase anyway.

    Could you please explain some reasons of to a certain extent?

    I don't think they'd call you that.

    Did that and still didn't understand what it meant.

    It's skill hard labour doing it every day, from sunrise to sunset!

    Yes this has already been explained to me.

    What other way can it be free?

    Ever heard of enforcing laws? This is a thing where it prevents people from underpaying people all together. If you do this, it will in fact help with people getting underpaid and have to employ people more fairly.

    It takes about 10-20 sometimes 30 minutes to drive to and from and about 20 minutes to 1 hour or 1 hour and a half to be served and out.

    Actually the way our country is going we will be in surplus in 2021.

    You can literally just say immigrant and is the exact equivalent legal or illegal.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 18, 2017, Original Post Date: May 18, 2017 ---
    This is a sad thing about Australia and American politicians, you actually pay them less than here. I think you pay them about $90,000 or so a year, while we pay them well over $200,000. Which if I could would like to take that away, which would save us a lot more money. With flat tax, its a good MINIMUM tax pay for everyone, but I think ours makes a bit more sense (This only includes income tax, excluding Australia's Medicare Levy and any other one).
    Taxable Income Tax on this income
    $0-$18,200: Nil
    $18,201-$37,000: 19c for each $1 over $18,200
    $37,001-$80,000: $3,572 plus 32.5c for each $1 over $37,000
    $80,001-$180,000: $17,547 plus 37c for each $1 over $80,000
    $180,001 and over: $54,547 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000

    To me, this tax table is a better solution to help people in minimum wage with taxes. Those earning less won't pay tax those who earn a lot will pay more.

    Sadly in Australia it is mandatory for our Medicare Levy. Because overall it is very fair to have it affordable to pay for medication and procedures and things like that.
     
  16. lfpnub

    lfpnub Popular Meeper

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    Should note that there is no law against coming here illegally- only laws apply if you are here illegally and break another law. That's why terms like "unauthorized" are more accurate.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
     
  17. MeepLord27

    MeepLord27 Popular Meeper

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    This depends on the city. I know that where I live pay starts at 14$ an hour and goes up to 18$ an hour. Thats pretty good money.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 18, 2017, Original Post Date: May 18, 2017 ---
    I don't like white knighting for anyone else, but I honestly don't understand your hatred for blue marlin @Daniel Thompson . If he is really just some ignorant country bumpkin who hates mexicans and blindly worships trump, why not just block him?
    If you insult someone, they will probably respond. Its not complicated.

    You think 9/11 was faked :D

    America is the greatest country in the world. All other countries are inferior.
     
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  18. cnkropp

    cnkropp Well-Known Meeper

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    Hell yeah it is.
     
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  19. Muunkee

    Muunkee Legendary art supply hoarder

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    Annual tuition for Yale 1970: $2,550
    Annual tuition for Yale 2014: $45,800

    Minumum wage 1970: $1.60
    Minimum wage 2014: $7.25

    Minimum daily hours at minimum wage to pay for tuition 1970: 4.8
    Minimum daily hours at minimum wage to pay for tuition 2014: 17.3
    (This would be assuming you did not have any scholarships, other related bills, this is purely tuition and nothing more.

    How much has tuition gone up since 1970? x18
    How much has minumum wage gone up since 1970? x4.5
    (edited to correct mistake
    Milk prices have gone up about x6
    Bread prices have gone up about x15
    just two examples

    Not to mention, college does not guarantee getting a job like it kind of used to be. It can turn a crappy job into a slightly less crappy job, but we are living in a world where if we get a 10 cents an hour raise we have to put on our happy smiley faces and go oh my GOD that is SO GREAT thank you SO MUCH OH HEAVENLY BOSS!!!!

    We have so many college grads who WANT jobs and DO try to find things for themselves, but now people are better off skipping it and learning a trade, which can also sometimes circle back to "You don't have a degree? You're an electrician? What, college too smart for you? hahahahhahahaha"

    There is no goddamned way to win now unless you have good connections, and/or being born into a higher class, or simply getting lucky.
    But the majority of us are straight up f'd. 8 out of 10 people are in debt. The average american household owes $90K in debt.

    I'm not ever going to necessarily say minimum wage should be the standard living wage. I do think that teenagers looking for their first jobs should not need a high wage or that someone just starting out in a new job/carreer needs a super high wage.

    I want the minimum wage to at least be able to scrape people by though. I want kids to be able to help their parents get out of their own debt right before getting **** on with their own debt that they'll get once they want to go to college or move. I want people who lose a good job for whatever reason be able to find a minimum wage job until they can find something better. I want people to be able to have accidents and not be royally screwed for the next decade. I want people to not want to commit suicide when they can't pay what they owe. I want people to not have to think, If I get run over by this train, I won't have to beg for money and be yelled at by some asshat for no reason at all.

    People deserve to be happy. Just because someone had an easy life does not mean the people who had it hard deserve it. The people who have it hard are not having it hard because they're going to a fancy restaurant every other day or buying T-bone steaks as a weekly treat or grabbing that expensive bottle of wine.

    People are having problems because so many of them are stuck in a world where there are two solutions: "Go to college, get a high paying job, but you'll likely have difficulties finding a job at all. Have this apron, you are a waiter now until you can find something If you find something :D "
    Or "Here's an apron. Wow, college too smart for you? LOL thats why you work as a waiter!"

    Sure, if you wait, something *might* happen for you or you *might* be able to get somewhere. But getting somewhere can cost money. And that's money too many people don't have.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  20. Ranger0203

    Ranger0203 Popular Meeper

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    Umm that's not at all what I said. I said that if you made a 7.25/hr job less livable, specifically by removing welfare benefits, then people would be more inclined to negotiate for higher pay (when I say people you should read unions).
    It means someone who is not of your country; a foreigner.
    No, it isn't, because a legal immigrant is very different from an illegal immigrant.
    HAH! One the one hand argue in favor of allowing people into our country illegally, but then you want us to enforce our laws?
    It's not free if people are paying for it.
    Again, I don't know how things are done in Australia, but a bank trip where I live takes 25 minutes total.

    That's how a flat tax works... If you make 100,000 dollars, you'll pay 10% (10,000). If you make $10,000, you'll pay 10% (1,000).
    You think taxing some people nothing and others 30%+ is fair?
    Do you not know what skilled and unskilled labor are?
    I thought this would have been clear from what we were talking about; If you increase the wages of the lowest class, then ofc they have more disposable income, but it also comes at the cost of raising the prices a smidge of just about everything, so other people have to pay more for things. So for one group it nets more expendable income but for all the other groups it nets less.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 19, 2017, Original Post Date: May 19, 2017 ---
    This is where we fundamentally disagree, and why we probably will never agree.
     

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