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Sexual harassment

Discussion in 'Debates' started by Skaros123, Nov 17, 2017.

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What's your view on the recent string of sexual assault and harassment allegations in the media?

Poll closed Friday at 7:13 PM.
  1. I believe all or most of the accusers and the perpetrators need to be swiftly stripped of power

    3 vote(s)
    8.3%
  2. I believe about half of these allegations, we need to be very careful with how we handle this

    14 vote(s)
    38.9%
  3. I believe few or none of the allegations, people are likely taking advantage of the hype

    7 vote(s)
    19.4%
  4. I think the issue has been too politicized, there's no way to know who's telling the truth anymore!

    11 vote(s)
    30.6%
  5. Other?

    1 vote(s)
    2.8%
  1. Skaros123

    Skaros123 Otaku Wooden Hoe

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    Debates seemed dry lately, and I'm very bored, so here's something you guys can debate about


    Unless you've been living under a rock (no offense to potential Patrick Star's), there have been many sexual assault/harassment allegations against several men of high social status.

    Here's my two cents
    Before I get into anything, I first want to give a quick firm reminder that an allegation does not mean anyone has been proven guilty. It is an accusation, and there is no guarantee that they are true or entirely accurate. And there have been many cases before where people have lied and have gotten someone else in serious trouble (prison sentencing, ending of careers, etc.). Now, it is also important to understand these types of crimes are hard to prove. Sex offenders would ideally commit their crimes with no witnesses, cameras, and audio recordings. Without any concrete evidence, it's ultimately the accuser's word against the defender's word. In any fair and just legal system, someone's words aren't enough to convict another person of a crime.

    However, I do not think it is odd for mass amounts of people to speak out after several years. People who have been sexually assaulted often fear for their lives and reputations, and it's not until they see that they aren't alone that they get the courage to speak up. People with power can get away with a lot of disgusting behavior, and it's no surprise that their victims would rather stay quiet than try to stand up for themselves. If they make an accusation, they have no evidence. Without any evidence, they really don't have many options besides to stay quiet.

    I was very reluctant to believe the allegations against Roy Moore at first because the timing seemed very odd considering he's running for Senate next month. Then, after hearing how he's been banned from a mall for predatory behavior, dated high school girls (according to former colleagues), and has many accusers, it's not so hard to believe anymore. With Al Franken, I was very hesitant to believe the accuser at first. Upon further research, I became more convinced that the accuser was stretching the truth. The only time a kiss happened was during a script rehearsal that she consented to. He never actually touches her in any of the photos she released. As for the photos themselves, it really does look like they were jokes in bad taste and not so much sexual assault. Nonetheless, Al Franken apologized for any potential misconduct and Leeann accepted. As for the George Takei allegation, I've found that it was pretty much total bogus.

    Despite the room for grey areas in sexual assault, there's almost no doubt that people like Harvey Weinstein have harassed women for years and thought they could use their power to get away with it. Sexual harassment and assault are serious issues that many people face. Even being accused of sexual harassment can ruin someone's life, which is why it's very important to take these kinds of allegations seriously without assuming one person is right while the other is not.
     
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  2. Klitch

    Klitch

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  3. Gaeyeong

    Gaeyeong Popular Meeper

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    tl;dr

    the second i heard more than 4 different woman rights activists use the statistic "More than 60% of rapes are undocumented and remain unheard of for the rest of their lives" i started to take these cases less seriously

    i understand how difficult it would be to come out about something like this, being a pretty embarrassing (?) thing to come clean for, but it needs to be done if you want action to be taken

    in the recent years, there is someone in some sort of power that a group of people dislike; therefore, he will get slammed for supposed sexual assault. it spirals into many people saying the same things, sometimes claiming it happened THIRTY PLUS YEARS AGO. take trumps for example. wow, a ton of girls come out and say that trump sexually assaulted them the second he became mega famous again... weird that they would want to do it at such a specific time? "its because he wont become president if they are ... say Something To The Presidant about raper.."

    if you were so traumatized by the situation and you couldnt even see the man's name on a piece of paper, you should have come forward and said something about it right away. sorry not sorry but its insanely hard to believe someone who comes out amidst a huge string of other people coming out against someone.
     
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  4. junelawnchaired

    junelawnchaired neat-o!

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    Speaking from personal experience, it can be extremely difficult or impossible for a victim of sexual assault to come forward. I know it might seem like an easy thing but the experience in itself might have been very traumatic and it’s already very stigmatized by society. It could cost them their reputation, and in some countries, their job. You feel like it was your fault for being vunerable or weak, and you worry about the power that the other person has over you (physically, financially (EXPECIALLY if they are rich+famous). So when you see other people coming out against a person, you get courage to also tell your story. I realise it might be harder to believe, but they should not just be written off as people who want attention.

    I don’t really want to get started on Trump but we all know about his “locker-room” “grab her by the _____” comment. For that, yes it makes sense that women would accuse him of sexual harassment/assult after that. The comment gross and should not be normalised. Expecially not for a public figure, but that’s a different debate.

    Also it’s not true that if a public figure is disliked then their name is soiled with the allegation of sexual assault. If you look up hated public figures (make sure you find an older article, because obviously only the sexual assault cases are being published now) you can see that only a few have been ruined by accusations.

    Anyways I just wanted to add another theory that I think it is really strange: that all of these cases are coming out now. People in Hollywood have known about child sexual abuse for as long as Hollywood has been around, but the stories were suppresed because no one took the people seriously or they were coaxed to not talk about it. Why is it being publisized now? Some say the Vegas shooter. That case completely disappeared and we know next to nothing about the shooter or his motives. It does seem fishy that these sexual allegations on such famous people are coming out at the same time for a reason.

    Aside from that, I’m not saying all the stories are fake, and they should at least be investigated without a bias and fairly.
     
  5. MeepLord27

    MeepLord27 Popular Meeper

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    That statistic is true though?
    Donald Moron has been swamped with sexual assault allegations since forever. This compounded with the fact that he was caught on a bus seemingly making light of sexual assault should give you more than enough evidence to realize he is a scumbag.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
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  6. Blue_Marlin

    Blue_Marlin Popular Meeper

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    Aye I’m back; back again to piss more people off! :)

    Sadly, it’s certainly turned into a political spectrum. I honestly don’t know who to believe or who not to believe. I loved Ann Coulter’s column about it ‘WEINSTEINS PIMPS: REVENGE OF THE UGLY GIRLS’ if you haven’t read it, I certainly hope you will. I want to believe anyone who comes out against someone, accusing them of sexual assault. However, I just can’t without the evidence. Too many people accuse high officials of sexual assault in order to get something in return.

    Roy Moore has been in his career for 40 years or so. You’re going to tell me (from the left) that the entire state of Alabama “knew” about Moore sexually assaulting women and not a single person reported it? The entire state, THOUSANDS of people, and not a single person reported it. In fact, instead of reporting it...... they...... voted for him? A girl who came out as one of Moore’s victims “allowed” him to work on her..... divorce? Accused him of this “yearbook scandal” and here we are 6 days later with no year book shown.... yet? This all comes out when he runs for senate?

    Then Liberals try to ignore or make light of Al Franken and Bill Clinton? We have actual proof, literal picture evidence of Al Franken touching Leenann Tweedens boobs & because she posed “half naked” in a magazine that means she wanted to be sexually assaulted? So that means every female who poses nude wants to be sexually assaulted?

    I don’t buy into it, watch the women accusing Al Franken & Bill Clinton on the news (they’ve been on their for a few days now).... I believe them, not the Trump or Moore accusers.
     
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  7. MeepLord27

    MeepLord27 Popular Meeper

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    What reason could you possibly have for believing the accusers of Bill Clinton but not Donald Trump @Blue_Marlin ? If anything their is numerically more accusers of Donald Trump so you would have more of a reason to think Donald Trump is a molester/rapist.
     
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  8. Blue_Marlin

    Blue_Marlin Popular Meeper

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    The fact that all the Moore/Trump accusers have been found out as fakes. They’re either paid to accuse them, or I believe a recent on was guilty of fraud.
     
  9. Skaros123

    Skaros123 Otaku Wooden Hoe

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    Wow, this is news to me then

    Can you please provide some kind of source?
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 20, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 20, 2017 ---
    Roy Moore has gotten in trouble as Supreme Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court twice (second time being more permanent). The timing seems odd. Although, Roy Moore does have a lot of questionable history
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 20, 2017 ---
    The picture I saw had his hands hovering - not touching. As for Bill Clinton, are you talking about Monica Lewinsky or someone else?
     
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  10. MeepLord27

    MeepLord27 Popular Meeper

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    Can you discredit all 16 of Donald Trump's accusers?
    What Happened to the 16 Women Who Accused Trump of Sexual Misconduct
    Aside from Monica Lewinsky there are 3(?) other women who have accused him IIRC.
     
  11. Skaros123

    Skaros123 Otaku Wooden Hoe

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    Well, Monica Lewinsky was very much consenting, so that wouldn't be assault, just infidelity. As for the other women, I'm not sure how much evidence there is, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were true.
     
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  12. Blue_Marlin

    Blue_Marlin Popular Meeper

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    Juanita Brodrick has been all over TV saying Bill Clinton raped her. She wrote an entire book about it. There is literal DNA proof that Bill Clinton raped/sexually assaulted women.

    Al Franken, he apologized for the ‘picture’ but denies everything else? There’s more to that story and Leeann has been all over TV talking about it.

    Roy Moore, no proof of sexual misconduct. He did infact (when he was in his 30’s) date a 17-19 year old (like 2 of them I believe but don’t quote me on it) and a 14 year old said she kissed Roy Moore but she willingly kissed him. And now her story is changing to rape/sexual assault? The entire state of Alabama apparently knew he was “doing this” and not ONE SINGLE person in the ENTIRE state of Alabama Did something about it? Not one person can bring a single piece of evidence? (my family is from Alabama, not important but just thought I’d put that in there) and then the year book scandal? Gloria won’t release this (fake) year book, she won’t show the (fake) signature, and at the time that this year book was ‘apparently signed’ Moore wasn’t even the D.A.

    Donald Trump, why hasn’t any of these (lying) 16 women sue him? Try him in a court? One girl who accused him, before she accused him, openly stated that she dated Donald Trump and he was a nice man. He runs for President and now he raped her? Another one borrowed a bikini from Mr. Trump while at Mar-A-Lago and he said “doesn’t she look nice” and that was sexual assault? Seems to me like Ashley Judd calling sexual assault at the airport. Apparently complimenting someone on their looks is sexual assault.

    We have picture evidence of Franken, DNA evidence of Clinton. No evidence of Trump or Moore & the left is inisitant on Trump and Moore stepping down. The left is inisitant that Trump and Moore raped/sexually assaulted these women & act as if what Bill and Al did is no big deal. I’m not saying it couldn’t be possible that Trump and Moore both sexually assaulted women. But the left has a huge bias towards it, and that’s a fact. My entire comment on this in the first place was the fact that Democrats (Liberals) only call it rape/sexual assault when a Republican is being accused. 95% of the real rapist/sexually assaulters are Democrats.
     
  13. Deinen

    Deinen S'all Good Man

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    I'm not arguing Bill Clinton hasn't had some shady stuff in his past but when investigated by Ken Star (A republic special prosecutor) no evidence was found to back this claim up.

    Leeann has come out and said that there is also no need for an ethics investigation when Franken has suggested it. This in itself is suspect. She isn't quite innocent either.

    Also if you look at the picture it's quite clear Franken never touched her.



    Roy Moore is not stepping down and he has lied several times already about some of the accusations, such as saying he has never even met the women, despite literally signing her yearbook. He began dating his current wife when she was herself a teenager and has literally been banned at an Alabama Mall for creepy behavior towards underage women.

    Donald Trump literally said:

    Transcript: Donald Trump’s Taped Comments About Women

    A few highlights -

    Trump: I moved on her, actually. You know, she was down on Palm Beach. I moved on her, and I failed. I’ll admit it.

    Unknown: Whoa.

    Trump: I did try and **** her. She was married.

    Unknown: That’s huge news.

    Trump: No, no, Nancy. No, this was [unintelligible] — and I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping.

    She wanted to get some furniture. I said, “I’ll show you where they have some nice furniture.” I took her out furniture —

    I moved on her like a *****. But I couldn’t get there. And she was married. Then all of a sudden I see her, she’s now got the big phony tits and everything. She’s totally changed her look.


    There is equal transgressions on both sides, the difference is "liberals" will hold their own accountable for such actions where the right will go to extreme ends to do anything but hold their own accountable.





     
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  14. MeepLord27

    MeepLord27 Popular Meeper

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    All you (people) seem to be able to argue against is some mythical straw man "liberal". Nobody on this thread has said only republicans rape people.
     
  15. Skaros123

    Skaros123 Otaku Wooden Hoe

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    I asked for a source on how these claims were debunked. You said they were all "found out to be fakes". Do you have any source at all?? It seems like you're just speaking without being prepared to defend a single thing you've said besides diverting all the blame to the liberals. Your arguments seem so much more based on your personal political beliefs as opposed to any... well... facts
     
  16. Deinen

    Deinen S'all Good Man

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    Because they are.

    See the Trump thread.
     
  17. Skaros123

    Skaros123 Otaku Wooden Hoe

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    I haven't really been following up on the accusers for Trump, because quite frankly there's other issues he has that I've been focusing on. Is there a certain page on that thread I should read up on?
     
  18. bloodyghost

    bloodyghost Popular Meeper

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    There is a musician called The Gaslamp Killer that I never was a huge fan of, but I have been aware of him for some time. He was not extremely famous, but definitely was one of the fore-runners in his respective genre. One day several months ago two women accused him of sexual misconduct. They had a mostly convincing story, but the allegations came right out of nowhere and had no evidence other than what they said in twitter posts.
    The Gaslamp Killer lost not only his current record label deal but his former label even issued a statement even though he had not released with them in 3 years or more. The labels seemed to drop him instantly like a hot potato as soon as the topic picked up some heat.

    Pardon my phrasing, but companies seem to have no balls when it comes to these types of allegations, or really any sort of social disruption. I'm fairly sure I could get any musician of his caliber fired by simply making a twitter account months in advance, and with a little planning make it look as if I had been in the artist's general area during a tour or whatever. Wait a month or so after that, and accuse the person. Don't need evidence, just need to be dramatic and the critical-thinking-void denizens of twitter would be backing me up by the hundereds.
     
  19. Blue_Marlin

    Blue_Marlin Popular Meeper

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    @Deinen he didn’t ‘literally’ sign the year book. She won’t even release the yearbook. Won’t show the signature or anything. Until she shows the literal yearbook. It’s fake. Roy Moore posts on Twitter everyday. “Day 5....6....7.... etc that the yearbook hadn’t be released. Because it’s nonexistant.

    Court documents now reveal Leigh Corfmans entire story is false.

    Leeann Tweeden has been on the news describing what happened. If it didn’t happen he wouldn’t have ‘apologized’ he would go into defense mode. As would any other sane person that’s being accused of sexual assault.

    Donald Trump was engaging in locker room talk. He apologized for it in the debates. He said he was embarrassed. He actually didn’t know he was being recorded.

    Saying something & doing something are two completely different things. You even quoted it yourself....
    “I moved on her..... I failed” which clearly means..... nothing happened..... if you move on someone & fail... that means it didn’t happen! Right??
     
  20. Deinen

    Deinen S'all Good Man

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    You mean

    http://static6.businessinsider.com/...s-yearbook-before-sexually-assaulting-her.jpg

    The literal act of grabbing women in the genitals he is describing is literally sexual assault. By your own insane logic the fact Franken failed to actually touch Leeann would mean it's not sexual misconduct -- But it clearly is.
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 23, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 23, 2017 ---
    Any of his posts, he blindly follows his ideology without regard for fact or reality. He's in the right wing cult.
     
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